Bummer news. No, unfortunately, this isn’t an April Fools’ Day joke. Queensland Court Judge Ken Barlow has ruled in favor of disgraced gaming cheater Billy Mitchell in his defamation lawsuit against gaming legend Karl Jobst.
The hearing was streamed live on YouTube – and at least as I write this, you can still watch it. While it certainly seemed to us bystanders like Billy’s case was dead-on-arrival, the one person whose opinion mattered thought otherwise. Judge Barlow procedurally listed the various imputations Billy had claimed of Karl’s video, which was to be expected. The bad omens of this hearing began once Barlow finished that list by concluding:
I have found that the video made each of those defamatory imputations.
It was only downhill from there. Barlow seemed especially irritated by Karl’s comments from a YouTube interview he was asked about during “Day 5”. As Karl put it:
I will never let Billy forget this. Assuming I win. I mean, I understand I’ve… I’ve gotta win first. But man, if I win, oh boy, I’m not gonna be a good winner. I’m not gonna be a good winner.
Barlow chose to embrace the illustration from Billy’s barrister that this litigation was somehow Karl’s crusade against Billy (despite Karl being the defendant). As Barlow himself said in the judgment reveal:
Mr. Jobst clearly intended to be the knight who slew the Mitchell dragon. Unfortunately for him, his lance was not as strong as he believed it to be, and it has broken in the contest.
Honestly though, while there were flaws in Karl’s case and his defense, this ruling is still inexplicable. Billy’s testimony utterly failed to stand up to basic scrutiny, and yet it seems no skepticism of his word was offered. There will be a written ruling published to the court site some time in the near future, where Barlow will go into more detail. Perhaps this is where he’ll explain which of Billy’s lies he did and didn’t fall for? (Note: As I was finishing this, the written ruling has been posted. But it’s 118 pages, so I’ll be reading it after getting this up on the site.)
So far, Karl has been ordered to pay Billy $300,000 (Australian) as standard damages, and $50k as aggravated damages, plus interest dating back to when the video was published. And Karl will have to pay some portion of Billy’s court costs, which I believe will stack on top of that. I don’t know, a bunch of figures got listed in succession. It will be a lot of money either way.
FWIW, I realize folks may have gotten the impression from my write-ups that things were going mostly well for Karl (aside from a few lawyer screw-ups I highlighted). I never wanted to lead anyone astray. I genuinely believed virtually all the testimony was lining up well for Karl and against Billy. Billy discredited himself in so many ways, and without his testimony, his case falls apart. I also sincerely believed that Judge Barlow was astute to what was going on around him, although it seems he was not. (Or maybe didn’t care, or wasn’t as offended by Billy as he was by Jobst.) And I still believe anyone who fairly examines the evidence ought to come to the conclusion that, while Karl did make a factual inaccuracy in his video, none of Billy’s exaggerated suggestions about the implications or impact of that claim hold water. But hey, I’m just the guy who researches the Billy Mitchell cases front to back, what do I know?
Anyway, there is a follow-up hearing in a couple weeks to review costs and damages. I’ll wait for further posting until after that hearing, but once everything is wrapped up, I’ll put together an overview of every way this ruling has failed us, the justice-starved public. Until then, please keep your heads up, and remember that no amount of litigation can give Billy Mitchell what he really wants, which is to not be gaming’s biggest clown this side of Todd Rogers.
Oh, one more thing. My regulars can have their usual fun in the comments below if they wish, and admittedly I’m not going to be on watching and moderating these comments 24 hours a day. You can express shock and disappointment, you can say you expected this unfortunate outcome, you can disagree with me, you can even have a reasoned position why you think the judge had to rule this way. But if you’re coming here to taunt or celebrate Billy’s win, you can fuck all the way off. Only terrible people support litigious frauds. Sure, you have the right to engage in such speech, but you can do that somewhere else.
Thanks for reading, everyone! My deepest thoughts especially go out to Karl and his family for this injustice. We will all get through this… together.
Thank you for all the hard work you’ve done documenting this.
https://www.queenslandjudgments.com.au/caselaw/qdc/2025/41
Thanks Ersatz for posting this. Despite the loss, I’m glad you were there to give us a full writeup of the trial.
I said this in a previous comment, but unfortunately this is a case where Australian law just appears far more strict when it comes to defamatory statements. Karl made it seem like things were always in the bag, but reading other cases of defamation in Australia and things just didn’t seem as clear cut. They have way more strict standards about what you say and how you substantiate it – not sure what that says about free speech in that country frankly. I truly feel like in a U.S. court of law, this would have been thrown out.
To me the thing that seemed to sink Karl the most was that the judge didn’t appreciate the bravado he gave out online. I was always concerned about the videos and statements Karl was making while the case was on-going and questioned if that was a good idea. It seems it wasn’t.
Oh well, at least its over. That’s the one good thing that came out of this.
Disappointing but understandable IMO. Was a fun ride while it lasted and hope Karl and his family don’t suffer much more because of this. Wonder if the channel will change direction because of this.
Your insight was valuable but highly biased towards Karl. He was your guy, so it’s understandable, but I think you missed a lot of the important points as a result of your enthusiasm as I think this case was pretty clearly more competitive than implied here the entire time.
Ultimately Billy’s lawyers convinced the judge that his reputation being bad because he cheated at Donkey Kong was very different than his reputation being bad for causing someone’s suicide. The false claim that Billy took money from Apollo and caused his death was really all that mattered here.
Karl did not take the steps necessary to correct the claim after it was shown to be false, and continued to antagonize Billy throughout the trial in ways that did little to help his case or undermine the claim that he was on a crusade against Billy. His lawyers should have told him to not talk about Billy until the trial was over, and if they did he should have listened.
In the US maybe this case goes a different way, but with Australia’s defamation laws being the way they are Karl needed to be far more responsible with the claims in his content than he was, and this verdict is the result of his carelessness, and commitment to producing high volumes of content about Mitchell.
Frankly, this case opens Karl up to considerable liability around other videos of his.
Karl had an affirmative defense to the element that caused the Apollo Legend video to be held defamatory, which was that he did his factfinding diligence. Inexplicably, Karl’s attorney failed to plead that defense during pre-trial process… which meant it could not be used at trial, and ultimately, meant that Billy automatically won.
When an assertion in court is presented without a defense being pled, the assertion is uncontested, and becomes fact, in the mechanics of litigation. If a trier of fact, such as the judge in this bench trial, finds a fact, as he was required to, and if that fact is an element of proof for one party’s claim, that party will have proven that claim, and when you prove your claim in court, you win.
The judge could have split the baby based on Billy’s credibility issues, but didn’t feel compelled to consider the matter any further than that (and again, mechanically, was not required to).
This is absolutely true. And while I did obviously land on Karl’s side in this case, I did my best to point out that there’s a good reason why you can’t just suddenly argue totally different shit in the middle of trial that the other side didn’t prepare for. So yes, Karl’s lawyers blew it on that.
unfortunately Mitchell’s lawyers only went in on the Apollo legend allegations, if the suit were about the cheating allegations Jobst would have won
The judge literally states that of the five ‘imputations’ Karl made, all of them were true to some degree, including that Billy is a cheater who sues people to shut them up.
But then somehow he ended up going “Yeah, but even so Billy got his feelings hurt by the video so here is a big pile of money.”
Fucking clown shit.
The reason why the judge sided with Billy was because reputation damage from cheating in a video game is different and less worse than the reputation damage from contributing towards someone’s suicide. In fact, Keemstar was falsely accused of contributing towards Etika’s suicide and it is still a major point against him to this day.
Total clown shit.
Did you not watch the “and Karl expect me video”? Kuck got sued because of the Apollo stuff.
Combined with the TG case, there seems to be a bit of a pattern of judges disliking defendants who are deeply emotionally invested into defeating Billy, and thus, in their minds, act irrationally in court. TG’s lawyer getting under fire for “going on a crusade” seemingly was the last straw that convinced them to settle. And I know courts are all about getting the facts right and being objective, but man does Billy make it hard (probably on purpose) to stay entirely objective while speaking of him.
Billy is not that good at Donkey Kong, but he plays the legal game incredibly well. And unfortunately we know from… (broadly gesturing) that a charismatic pathological liar is a deadly combination.
ersatz_cats, you were right on saying that Karl was going to lose the moment they could contest the claim that Karl was the first and/or the most prominent figure that linked Apollo Legend death with the lawsuit that he had with Billy Mitchell. Paragraph (420) from the verdict mentions that “the contention that Mr Mitchell was a substantial contributor to Apollo Legend’s decision to commit suicide has persisted for some years. No such assertions were ever made and Mr Mitchell did not have such a reputation before the offending video was published.” Even if the judge didn’t showed such a clear bias towards Billy, BB and Billy’s witnesses (I can tell you that because I read most of the verdict document), Karl lawyers had already lost the case before any of the testimonies could be submitted.
Thank you for all of your write-ups all the way to this very dissapointing but expected conclusion.
*couldn’t.
Another poster also mentioned Paragraph (506) which reads “Mr Jobst did not plead any facts or explanation for his denial of Mr Mitchell’s allegation that he had not made any, or any proper, pre-publication enquiry as to the true position” and Paragraph (507) which reads “[Karl Jobst] had no reasonable basis for the assertions he made in the offending words. He was, indeed, recklessly indifferent to whether or not those assertions were true.”. I’m sorry but no matter how someone spins it, Karl’s lawyers and even Karl himself had a bigger impact on this final verdict.
I especially forgot the most important part of a defamation case against a “public figure” like Silly Bitchell, which is that you have to prove that someone acted in malice, which the judge determined that Karl did, as mentioned on Paragraph (523): “I find that Mr Jobst certainly has malice toward Mr Mitchell. Not only the matters relied on by [Billy’s Barister] demonstrate that, but other conduct concerning the retraction video and other online videos or streamed interviews in which he was involved are clear demonstrations of his malice, not only at the time of the offending video, but continuing up to and during the trial…”
It is so fucking stupid because what he said was functionally true.
Billy sued a kid and forced him to take down his most popular videos (losing him money) while forcing him to pay for an expensive legal proceeding (losing him money). Apollo was broke (because of Billy) and that contributed to his suicide.
Literally the only thing he got wrong was that there wasn’t a lump sum settledment.
You are wrong about Billy forcing Apollo Legend to pay for his legal fees. In fact, in Billy’s original rebuttal towards Karl about Apollo Legend, he states that Apollo didn’t pay for his legal fees. Also deleting your most popular videos loses future income since it affects your channel’s discoverability for some time. Apollo was still paid for the existing views on his most popular video.
That’s one thing that really bothers me about the current narrative.
Was Karl correct in saying that AL had paid money to BM? No, and unless he felt he had proof of such, he shouldn’t have said so (without making clear that these are just rumors).
But did BM financially harm AL? Almost certainly. Sadly, I can’t find numbers for the ad revenue generated by AL’s videos on BM, but they were extremely popular. By forcing AL to take them down (and ostensibly preventing future revenue from preventing AL from covering BM’s other shenanigans), BM certainly denied AL deserved revenue.
Do I think BM killed AL? Of course not. Do I think BM’s actions actually helped contribute to AL’s financial (and therefore mental health) problems? Very much so. But people seem to be overlooking that.
Thank you. I was about to say, I thought you meant to say “couldn’t”. But yeah, big oof on the part of Karl’s lawyers.
Man, that is tough. I have to admit, given how Karl’s lawyers handled the case and how Australia favours defamation suits, it shouldn’t come off as that much of a surprise.
My main concern is just this narrative popping off on how Karl misled people? This has been floating around for a while from the pro-Billy camp, but was there ever really any doubt on what the lawsuit was actually about? I felt like day one it was pretty clear cut it was about defamation and allegations about Apollo’s suicide, not whether or not Billy’s a cheater.
It blind sided me at first. I only realized until I started reading the ersatz_cats posts about the day to day proceedings. All I had to go off of was Karl’s videos talking about how much of a cheater BM is and how in the bag he has this case. It was a 180 to start reading the posts from this site.
Part of me wonders if Karl and his team weren’t blind sided themselves.
Due to the volume of this narrative I see, I have to accept that a lot of people did indeed think this lawsuit was about cheating. (Wirtual made a reference to that in a recent stream talking about Riolu.) But Karl wasn’t lying to people. He just didn’t discuss the particulars of the case, which is what you’re supposed to do. And also, let’s be honest, Billy was suing Karl because Karl covered Billy’s cheating, not because of a single technically inaccurate statement, which Billy himself blew out of proportion.
Like you say, the information was out there, readily accessible.
Honestly, I only found out that the apollo comment was a big part when reading your summaries.
And just with the results I realize that the whole lawsuit was about that.
At first I thought it was about many comments Karl made, not this specific one.
Speaking of which, why on earth did Karl fight this case? Was there a settlement offer? The moment I saw what the real goal of it was , I don’t understand why you wouldn’t settle. I’m curious if BM’s attorneys were incredibly devious into baiting them into this. I mean if so, kudos to them.
That narrative makes actually zero sense, and there are people even posted his GoFundMe page claiming that even that was misleading, when he very clearly mentions this as a defamation case on that very same page.
Bit of a shame. I think another person hit it exactly right. The coverage here, while very justifiably anti-BM, wasn’t as gung-ho as Karl’s, which is to be expected. Ersatz suggested multiple times his concern about few things that had happened. For those of us who’ve had to deal with BM the jackass for 20+ years, we inherently know the absolute lies, manipulation and bullying that fraudster has managed to pull off and make a career out of. For some random Australian judge with no history and nothing invested, Karl and his team were at his mercy, and they obviously failed to provide a convincing case. The resulting narrative that everyone’s been misled for the purpose of crowdfunding Karl’s defense is horseshit. Please tell me people aren’t actually dumb enough to drink the cocktail of hypocrisy about misleading people for profit. Jesus, Billy is the living manifestation of that. The King of Fraud just collected enough funds to file at least 20 more lawsuits here in the states. That’s the real tragedy. That many more innocent people who will be attorneyed to fuck and have to settle.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say he’s misleading for profit. It’s that he was misleading as to what the lawsuit was about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzedyR7-MSM
He calls the lawsuit frivolous. That is about all the context is given. And considering that all Karl talks about in this video and others, is about BM cheating. So the average viewer would assume it’s frivolous due to the fact we know BM to be a cheater. That sounds like a frivolous lawsuit. I can see the argument that it’s misleading. But I doubt anyone could prove that it’s purposely misleading, and I would be surprised if it actually was.
That is a horrible outcome that sets an even worse precedent. Not only is Silly Bitch going to spin this into him being proven to not have cheated, it’s also going to fuel his future lawsuits, and help silence his critics, and help push the idea that if you say mean words about horrible people on the internet, you’re either going to get cancelled by the Twitter hate mob, or sued for everything you own.
Proves one thing though, not that I ever had any doubts about it: lawyers, judges and everyone else in the legal profession are on the exact same tier of scum as politicians; most of whom were originally lawyers, not coincidentally. Even worse when it’s some out of touch boomer idiot in a position of power like this.
I don’t care much about this as a whole, but I hope it sets a good tone that youtubers shouldn’t be claiming such things about people. It can and does ruin lives. While I think the lawsuit’s damages were excessive there’s no denying karl was guilty of what he trialed for
Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That’s how it goes
Everybody knows
I literally have the Leonard Cohen song Everybody Knows playing in my head while reading all these
Corrupt system, this is what I’m afraid of since I’m going through the same
You spelled his name wrong. His real legal name is Todd Todgers.
This was my most lucrative decision yet. Mr. Mitchell and his counsel agreed to split the proceeds with me 50/50. Long live justice. Long live Billy “King of Kong” Mitchell.
I knew he lost the moment I seen YouTube video recommendation from Karl being about dcs batteries.
Then came he to see.
I have always said our law in Australia were against Karl and always tried to remind ppl it wasn’t about donkey kong scores. The scores were just ti show he lies and is a fraudster.
Just so ppl out of Aus understand. Our defame laws were so bad, our major news and sports YouTube pages would have comments turned off. Be cause they could be found liable for comments made in comment section if they showed no evidence to remove defame comments. As previous lawsuits had been filed and won.
Only recently has this changed for some you tube channels and I was alway like oh they have comments left on, but only now did it click its most likely the change in our defame laws that came into effect, but after all this bily stuff so Karl was tried using old laws.
So while Karl said it, it was everyone’s comments that probably made it worst. Billy even said at a con he went to that Karl used in video. His lawyers told him that everyone commenting about appollo only strengthened his case. I use to put in Karl’s video comments all the time saying this, but it would go un engaged, no likes or comments so I would delete after a day or two.
While I’m not shocked that GBF won, I’m annoyed it was for so much (as mentioned comments played a big part) i was hoping it was a dollar or just a cost verdict, because while Karl did say it; Billy also had been shown not yo be trust worthy and contradictory statements in two cases on the effect Karl’s comments had. But now he will smugly go around and tell the story of see I told you my donkey kong stuff is all legit. And Kbf fan club will all be out in force. I haven’t even watched dcs battery video from Karl but can imagine the comment section.
Apart from GBF not being provably responsible for apollos death. Nearly everything else in Karl’s videos seemed to be fact or at least backed up by evidence.
He still said he would try not to laugh if he did die, he still spun lies to do with twin galaxy’s and donkey kong.
And as much as he says he was playing a character but was still some how portrayed wrong and misrepresented in king of Kong. He will always be that guy in my eyes.
And if/when GBF and that other guy try and do that follow up documentary that’s been in the works, don’t watch it. Don’t give them your time or money.
Oh and please if you do want to watch it, do not watch a pirated copy. They will get no money if you do and GBF will be sad.
Hate to see Mitchell win, but you guys have to be blind if you can’t see why Karl lost.
He was going on a vendetta against Mr.Mullet, made no secret of it and even gloated about it when his trial was going on, which is incredibly stupid.
Also, while Billy is indeed a cheat and has no reputation, this case wasn’t about cheating. That’s why people are saying that Jobst has mislead them – he has maintained for years that he is being sued for defamation, always implying that it was for calling Mitchell a cheat, when in fact it was for claiming that AL offed himself because of Billy.
And it court, it wasn’t Billy’s word again Karl’s, was it? Bitchell’s legal team was able to prove that he got no money from his settlement with AL; and while his leaked DMs prove that the guy has no soul, he didn’t actually drive the guy to the point of committing suicide.
And Jobst did everything he could to lose the trial. By milking it for content, by giving out interviews that prove that he, indeed, has a vendetta against ol’Silly, by failing to properly correct the record after he found out that Mitchell, in fact, had nothing to do with AL’s suicide, which is what a “journalist”, which he fancies himself as, should’ve done.
I’m extremely sad to see Bitchell taking an actual W, but I’m also extremely disappointed in Karl. He should have fucking known better.
Karl has a right to be pissed off because he was being sued by guy who hands out frivolous lawsuits like candy. I agree he was milking it for content but imagine the hundreds of hours he spent to prepare this for trial. If he hadn’t made videos about it, he would have incurred a huge loss of income. On top of that, he had extremely high bills to pay.
I think it comes down to this: In nearly every statement of Karl’s publications, he has his facts straight. He is sloppy once and Judge punishes him with hundreds of thousands of Dollars of damages. Billy, on the other hand, lies and manipulates literally all the time. But he is the one that Judge believed. Of all people.
His being sloppy only once is possibly a result of his emotional investment in Billy. As you’ve pointed out, Karl is very careful to do his research and state facts. Karl did have opportunity to fix this mess. Unfortunately he should have just steered clear from Billy altogether.
This is supremely disappointing. A (admittedly boneheaded) mistake by Karl, along with his trademark bravado, ended up giving an absolute snake of a conman everything he wanted.
Honestly, it may have been “right” for Karl to lose here just going off the pure nature of the law in Australia (and his failure to make a good retraction), but man this is the worst person to lose so much to. This story will be twisted immediately into some kind of redemption when ultimately it’s about a paragraph of words – and with everything else said about Billy Mitchell remaining true. Karl should’ve just never gotten involved, instead I wish everyone could’ve just forgotten this dude even existed. I don’t know if Karl can recover, unless something charitably intervenes again.
I also hate the precedent this may set for dubious onlookers. I hope it doesn’t encourage other cheaters to use the legal system to try and punish those who call them out. It seems to be a pattern mostly reserved to just the old guard, but you never know.
This is supremely disappointing. A (admittedly boneheaded) mistake by Karl, along with his trademark bravado, ended up giving an absolute snake of a conman everything he wanted.
Honestly, it may have been “right” for Karl to lose here just going off the pure nature of the law in Australia (and his failure to make a good retraction), but man this is the worst person to lose so much to. This story will be twisted immediately into some kind of redemption when ultimately it’s about a paragraph of words – and with everything else said about Billy Mitchell remaining true. Karl should’ve just never gotten involved, instead I wish everyone could’ve just forgotten this dude even existed. I don’t know if Karl can recover, unless something charitably intervenes again.
I hate the precedent this may set for dubious onlookers. I hope it doesn’t encourage other cheaters to use the legal system to try and punish those who call them out. It seems to be a pattern mostly reserved to just the old guard, but you never know.
The game isn’t over yet. There seems to be something very “off” about the way this judge applied the law. I think between that and the piss poor representation from Karl’s barristers, the case is rife for appeal. It’s going to mean another fundraiser, but there are plenty of people pissed off enough at BM to throw some cash in.
Damn Karl removed video befor I could go through comments. 🙁 i was looking forward to relaxing and looking through everyone’s reaction. I always said win or lose the first video Karl does wil be wild in the comments and I was right apparently lol
Before I disagree let me just say that I do not like or respect Billy. I am of the opinion that Billy is a cheater and a habitual liar.
That said, the core allegations of this case were that Apollo was forced to pay a large sum to Billy, and this contributed to his suicide. Karl made those claims. They are on video.
There is no direct evidence supporting these claims. If there was Karl would have used it. Instead, Karl’s defense was that Billy’s reputation was so damaged already that these claims did not hurt him. I think we can all agree that being blamed for diving someone to suicide is a lot worse that being accused of cheating and lying about cheating.
It’s good that you’re informed, but that doesn’t mean your opinions carry more weight than legal experts. In my own opinion, after reading the judges ruling, Karl deserved this loss. I feel bad for his family because now they have to shoulder a part of this burden.
The worst part is that Billy is now likely emboldened and empowered to go after anyone else. I hope everyone can take a step back and realize that engaging drama can have serious consequences.
I appreciate your willingness to disagree. However:
“There is no direct evidence supporting these claims.”
I must say, “direct” is doing some lifting. There was evidence. I discussed it in a couple of the court write-ups:
https://perfectpacman.com/2024/09/15/karl-day-0/
https://perfectpacman.com/2024/09/24/karl-day-5/
The reason it wasn’t used is because Karl’s lawyers are bad.
From the official ruling, page 101 [506] and [507]:
“Mr Jobst did not plead any facts or explanation for his denial of Mr Mitchell’s allegation that he had not made any, or any proper, pre-publication enquiry as to the true position. He did give some evidence, however, as to a source of his assertion that Apollo Legend had been obliged to pay a large sum to Mr Mitchell, namely a comment on Reddit to the effect that Mr Mitchell had made Apollo Legend pay him $50,000. […] Even if I were to have regard to this evidence and to accept that such a message was the source of his belief that Apollo Legend had been obliged to pay Mr Mitchell a large sum of money, it would not assist Mr Jobst’s defence. One person’s comment or message, without any proof of the assertion, would not be a reasonable and
sufficient basis for the assertion in the video. Mr Jobst made no enquiry of Mr Mitchell or anyone associated with him or with Apollo Legend before first publishing the offending video. He had no reasonable basis for the assertions he made in the offending words. He was, indeed, recklessly indifferent to whether or not those assertions were true.”
It’s very hard to argue in defence of Jobst here.
Suffice to say, I disagree with the judge on this one. Sure, in an ideal world, you just go up to the guy who lies about everything and ask his input, and hope he doesn’t send you chasing geese and wasting your time yet again. But this philosophy is how you end up with the dumb sort of “journalism” where reporters simply repeat “Person A says this, Person B says that, who knows which is true?” Also, since the settlement was known to be confidential, it was safe to assume Billy couldn’t comment on it even if you did ask him. Sometimes, you are correct to proceed with the claim you believe is true. (To be fair, we didn’t know it for sure to be true, and Jobst did make a mistake in asserting it plainly as fact.)
Also, despite what Barlow says there, it was also much more than a single Reddit comment. See the links above. It was multiple inferences from people in Billy’s own circle, who would’ve had a basis for knowing.
Per the evidence we had, one could only reasonably come to one of two conclusions: Either there was a financial settlement, or Billy was falsely telling people in his circle there was, hoping they would spread the word for him. We believed it was likely the former. It turned out, it was the latter. But neither helps Billy in this case.
If there was more than a reddit message, why was it not presented in court? Where is Jobst’s list of sources then? Why were these people not called as witnesses?
It’s the judge’s task to take everything into accoun _that was presented_.
As it stands, this ruling notes that the evidence for the claim was based on a single message. That was not even included in the exhibit list,
The reason Karl didn’t raise that defense is because his lawyers screwed up and didn’t plead it during pre-trial. According to the Australian rules of civil procedure, that makes it the same as if that defense didn’t happen, for the purpose of this case.
Karl having done reasonable diligence would be an affirmative defense to that element of Mitchell’s claim, and would have prevented Mitchell from meeting all the required elements of defamation. I can’t say enough how badly this attorney error hurt Karl, it was the whole ballgame, both ersatz and others noted it when it happened and were like “Oh this isn’t good. Hopefully it doesn’t sink the whole case.” But it did.
In the U.S. the legal firm would be in shambles and shedding clients left and right.
Dude, I appreciate the work you’ve done in documenting this case, it’s legitimately good for preservation, but I really don’t think this stuff would’ve made a difference. Unless this “Sam” evidence you are reffering to is pretty definitive and could be publically cited (I can’t comment much without seeing it), the evidence here is almost non-existent. Side note that the TG forum didn’t load for me, I’m writing this under the assumption that the best evidence on that was also written in the perfectpacman day 0 and 5 links that you just posted, given that you posted a few of citations on there about believing a potential financial settlement.
Casey Ross doesn’t claim a financial settlement, so shouldn’t be factored in. “Mio456” does, but is an anonymous account, and is seemingly claiming that Apollo said there was a payout and he had big debt, not Mitchell. This makes it sound like they’re an Apollo insider if anything, not a Mitchell insider. And being that what they said was wrong, they probably weren’t either, and I don’t think it’s reasonable to believe either.
And I have to address an argument here. An anonymous Reddit account makes two claims, one half (the part about just a settlement) is a highly likely outcome of any lawsuit. That likely outcome turning out to be true, doesn’t validate the 2nd part (the financial payout). We now know it didn’t turn out to be true, but it wouldn’t mean they are an insider even if it were. If I claim a big sports star who’s frequently injured, is injured, and it’s later revealed by chance he is, I’m still probably not an insider. I’m probably just some guy talking shit on Reddit. That’s not even getting into the fact that being an insider wouldn’t even be good enough on its own, you’d have to argue that it wasn’t reckless to publically repeat the claim of this alleged insider, too. Maybe an easier task than convincing a judge that it’s reasonable to believe that this anonymous account is an insider, but still not easy nonetheless. And you have to convince a judge of both, without fail, if you only get one, you lose the case.
And the rickybm post is even worse. As you stated, it was posted after the settlement. Which means there isn’t even a correct prediction potentially meaning an insider, it’s literally just a claim from a random Reddit account. No insider possibility, nothing, just a claim. This cannot be considered even passable evidence. And that’s it, there wasn’t anything else. Sam, Mio456 and rickybm. Can’t speak too much for Sam, but citing Mio and Ricky would get laughed out the court. We’re not talking even close enough to convince a judge that repeating their claims wasn’t reckless, or as the judge said, something to the effect of “showing indifference to the truth.”
Thing is, let’s examine a probable scenario. Billy, with a big ego, told his circle of guys that Apollo paid out and is super fucked financially, something he likely wanted to be true. Perhaps that was even a genuine possibility at one point and told them truthfully, who knows. Then they go out and leak some of that info. (And btw, I find this a lot more likely than a 4D chess conspiracy of Mitchell planting false information that needed 1000 different things to fall together in order to work.) Even if this were true, these are still anonymous Reddit accounts. There still isn’t enough evidence in these posts to indicate that these are insiders, and it still isn’t enough to argue to a judge that it wasn’t reckless to re-publish these claims. And I hate to say it, it’s because it truly isn’t, not because the judge is unreasonable. It IS reckless to believe anon. accounts are insiders because one of them (or 2 if you count Sam) got 1 half of their highly possible predictions right about an outcome that wasn’t public yet. Especially about a sensitive subject like this. I mean no harm to you or Karl, I wish he wasn’t just set back $1mil because of a cheater got salty at him, but it’s just how I see the facts. IMO, the judge’s argument is air-tight, this wouldn’t make a lick of difference.
Has Karl said anything about his lawyers? I agree, from the outside looking in it seems that they made some blunders.
However, none of us were in their meetings. It’s completely possible that they and Karl decided not to try and prove due diligence (because they didn’t believe they could). If they didn’t believe they could pull it off, trying that tack would just weaken their credibility. Trying to argue due diligence without any proof of it would have just undermined them.
I know Karl tried to testify to that, and the judge rejected their evidence (because they had already acceded the point). Do we know if this was something they had planned from the beginning, and therefore a huge blunder? Is it possible that they decided to change strategy partway through the trial? I would like to find out if we could because if indeed they always meant to prove due diligence I would see that as a career ending blunder. If I needed an attorney and found out about a mistake that big, I would be very unlikely to hire them.
Really though, I have to imagine that they went over all of their potential strategies and decided not to pursue a due diligence defense. They never laid the foundations for that defense. Karl would have had weeks or months during the pleading phase to submit evidence. If it was always Karl’s plan to plead due diligence and his team just failed him miserably, he surely would have objected, filed complaints of inadequate legal representation, or even fired them outright.
Dave Murphy, you had a great comment which… seems to have disappeared? It shows up in my mod stuff, but not on the page. I didn’t do anything to it. I won’t repost it in case you changed your mind and deleted it or something, but I wanted to say I agree very much about the judge. I thought, surely, this guy seems pretty astute, but clearly I was wrong.
lol Oh derp, the comment was and still is on the old post. https://perfectpacman.com/2025/03/18/karl-update/
I’m only getting round to reading this post today. And yes, my comment was from the previous blog entry 👍
Ah well, let this be a lesson for future targets of Billy’s (or similar) lawsuits.
Don’t fly too close to the sun. Stay humble. Don’t poke the bears’ nest while you await for the decision.
I was worried Karl’s online conduct since the hearings would aggrieve the judge, but even so, I wasn’t expecting it to be this bad.
I’m somewhat struggling to understand the judge’s own thought processes in finding against KJ.
I haven’t read much of it, it in paragraph 13 he lays out the settlement between Apollo Legend and Mitchell, one part of which was AL is not allowed to mention GBF or else have to pay $25k.
In paragraph 14 he mentions AL’s goodbye video (I have not watched it and will not watch what is effectively a suicide note, afaict) and that he didn’t mention GBF in it, and my thought are “well, obviously, you just said he’d have to pay him $25k for talking about him, so why is this notable in any way?”
In paragraph 17 he mentions that KJ’s defense was contextual truth, and although I haven’t read that much into it, I recall from watching him read it out that he accepted that (I think) 5 of the 6 of those were true, but still finds against Karl, which I don’t understand.
In paragraph 16 one of GBF’s contentions is that a reasonable person would believe Karl is saying GBF is responsible for AL’s suicide, and again referring to the video of the judge reading his summation, I think I remember him saying that there were 396 of over 8,000 comments that made reference to GBF killing AL, or some such, which is less than 5% of the comments. I don’t know how you can go from a <5% hit rate and conclude that’s “reasonable people” believing GBF was responsible for AL’s death.
I was also very annoyed when the judge concluded that KJ defamed him by saying he was the main, or a contributing cause to AL’s death, when GBF’s contention was that KJ was saying he was THE cause of the suicide, not A cause of it. I found that to be an incredibly unfair broadening of the contention; AL settled and then less than four months later was dead, I don’t think it unreasonable to consider a connection between the two events, factual accuracy around payments aside.
Anyway. Sucks ass, KJ’s legal team should have been a lot more on the ball during pleading, hopefully KJ has figured out a means of making payments if there can’t be an appeal, which really should be allowed to happen even if just because of the legal team dropping the ball.
Thanks for your efforts KC, I really appreciate the lengths you’ve gone to in order to follow along with this case, as well as the website in general.
You bet, thanks for reading. Yeah, this shit is baffling. I will go through it all in the not-too-distant future (which seems to be my favorite phrase).
I was never as hopeful as most people on here seemed to be, but I certainly was not expecting damages to be this high.
Would not surprise me if Billy spins this as vindication of his cheating allegations.
Some of the points in the judgment are outrageous. This is not fair, it is clearly biased! He dismissed most of Karl’s statements and his witnesses, while having nothing but sympathy for Billy. Even disregarding the blunders by Karl’s lawyers, this is not a balanced view. Very disappointing. I hope there is a way for Karl to appeal this. Preposterous…
the irony of claiming to want an unbiased opinion, but clearly wanting Karl to not lose. Judges are still people and you’re doing your best to convince them that you have better argument. They’re not some brain dead emotionless robot’s with nothing but pure reasoning in them.
they have two arms and two legs and still go home and play with their balls like everyone else in the country.
I agree, I don’t want Karl to lose. However, I accept he was wrong the way he talked about Apollo Legend’s settlement. Based on that it reasonable that Karl loses the case, by an unbiased opinion, even though I am against it.
What I referred to was the reasoning of the Judge. Have you read through the statement? I encourage you to. You will hardly find any comments supporting Karl’s arguments. Even when Billy, in my opinion, obviously manipulates, the judge will find a way to argue for Billy. This I criticize. But what do I know, I am not a lawyer.
the only small bonus is that $350,000 ausfag dollars is only $220,000 freedom units
I still think its a big hat tip to this blog post as it has educated me so much in defamation law suits in Australia more then anything. I was rooting for Karl.
Also gotta feel bad for Karl who now probably close to MILLION dollars in the red by the time he pays lawyers, fines and court costs etc.
a bummer yes,
while actually I have less interest on this case compared to the one against twin galaxies as once mention like a year ago or so, we need an example(not for law but for people to witness) of a cheater failure on suing a record organization or contest organizer, so not to see another one in the future…
My biggest worry become true,it’s being hushed whether he cheat or not doesn’t matter in these whole saga…the only consolation is the judge despite this defamation issue result, actually acknowledge that billy is video game cheat after all.
Now my only biggest worry now is the other cheaters or conman might attempt the same gambit as billy did and suing the others who expose them
Yeah, not really.
This is very unfortunate for Karl and I am sorry to see the result. I wish the best for him and his family in the future.
One unfortunate moral of the story is to just steer clear of people like Billy Mitchell. Not just for fear of litigation. The longer a person involves themselves with serial liars the more they become emotionally invested. Karl definitely enjoyed antagonizing Billy. Billy is a clown whose continuous lying paid the rent in Karl’s head.
Con artists are people of opportunity. Ultimately Billy was able to latch on to one factually incorrect statement that Karl could have been worded differently. Karl is usually very careful about covering himself as it pertains to fact and opinion, and it is unfortunate that his emotional investment into Billy may have clouded his judgement on his wording.
Nobody likes seeing liars and con artists succeed, but really the best thing to do is to steer clear from them unless you are forced to protect yourself. For some people, conning is their business, and business is good.
I was surprised that the judge even included current events and videos as evidence to some degree: “d) Mr Jobst’s conduct since the first publication of the video, including during
this proceeding, has been aggravating and has caused additional personal hurt
and reputational damage to Mr Mitchell.”
I m surprised that the judge did not distinguish the claim and it seems Karl shot himself in the foot with the additional content: “I get a lot of content out of
it … after the trial there will be a lot more content … content feeds my family
etc.”351 He also participated in another interview online, in which he said that he
made multiple videos about Mr Mitchell to earn the money to afford to defend this
claim.”
That is a very expensive lesson. That verdict feels so unfair considering Billy Mitchells shown personality..
I had previously mentioned in another blog post that I wasn’t fond of the judge, and this was way before the actual verdict.
He never corrected Billy for being in contempt of court (mobile phone use, contacting a witness whilst trial was in progress).
He also made overly-friendly remarks about his intent to watch The King of Kong, stating that he would watch it with some popcorn, and maybe some of Billys “hotsauce”.
I personally saw an old judge take a liking to an old Billy Mitchell, and he put himself in Mitchell’s shoes.
I do think he immediately felt pity for Mitchell, simply because he didn’t know any better. He wasn’t up to speed on the full story, and he certainly wasn’t aware of the bully-boy tactics that Mitchell has dished out.
During the verdict, the judge made Karl look like the vindictive one. He read out a statement that was scathing to say the least, but he didn’t have anything negative to say on Mitchell’s heartless words laughing and joking about Apollo’s supposed death.
I don’t understand why the judge didn’t hold him accountable for any of his vile words or actions.
We all know Billy is a lying, cheating, litigious scumbag, and that is factually correct. He’ll always be known as that guy. His career is dead, and he did it to himself, it’s all of his own doing.
Judges are peculiar. My sister lost a lawsuit accordingly: she bought a house and in the house was a man who, due to illness, was a hoarder. This man was also the father of the real estate agent. She wanted nothing more to do with her father. They were patient and waited and helped her father find something new. An invoice from the real estate agent did not come at the beginning. Only after half a year when her father had moved out she had received the invoice. My sister only paid half and said she hoped this was okay considering the circumstances. The real estate agent immediately hired a lawyer and sued my sister to pay everything immediately. The judge apparently felt sorry for the old man and saw my sister as the bad one eventhough he was not present or part of the lawsuit. It wasn’t about a lot of money, but we were the ones who were wronged.
Well said.
You may be interested to know that, in the full judgment document, the judge explains his opinion on Billy’s vicious text messages about AL’s death. And it is simple. He believes Billy when he said it was just dark humor. See paragraph 325.
Thus, the judge thinks that, in fact, it was Karl’s reporting that was defamatory because, after all, Billy was just kidding (Paragraph 320) and further, because Billy made these statements privately, it is no big deal. Paragraph 419.
The outcome is ironic considering how GBF basically pulled the SAME stunts against Abdner Ashman claiming that he cheated on “Ms Pacman” back in 2005 when he got the new WR, petitioning Walter and I that he must have cheated because he got three (3) 8-kill screen games in a row as compared to himself, Chris Ayra and one other who collectively had maybe that many over decades of play. It did not play out in the courts or even the case of public opinion, but I had to get Abdner’s board tested by a recognized industry expert (“Spike” from Lupine Systems) and even THEN after “Spike” said it was all good both GBF and Chris still balked to Walter and I about it.
GBF also tried to steal Wiebe’s fame when Wiebe’s first 1M was received on tape. First there was the concerted effort involving Kuk and the visit to Wiebe’s home resulting in that “gummy substance” BS that he and Kuh convinced me was highly suspect. And second, at a Lincoln Center event in approx Aug/04GBF got his ass to there along with Walter and in front of a crowd of approx 1500 people proclaimed that he was holding up in his hand “they said it couldn’t be done” (who was “they” ??) and that it was the world’s first 1M score on DK…and ironically nearly 20 years later that performance is widely regarded as NOT being performed on original DK hardware.
I also have a snapshot someone sent me of a social media post (Aug/21) that he made…and if it was GBF Jr it still does not exonerate him in spirit…which made claims against me that states, AND I QUOTE…”Robert Mruczek was banned from a forum for harassing people. He couldn’t tell the truth if it was nailed to his wooden forehead. He collects anime porn paintings for a hobby. He’s a true blockhead who was kicked out of every gaming event he ever attended”.
Well, point by point…
1st – both myself and two others were temporarily removed from the TG forum after I had defended myself against toxic posts made by a small cadre of people who had an agenda against the old TG staff and the “referee days”
2nd – no, I collected pinup artwork as an investment, much of which has since been sold, and none of which was “anime”
3rd – I have never, ever been “kicked out” of a single gaming event let alone “every” gaming event that I have ever attended.
GBF has NO problem bashing others and making defamatory comments about them, but clearly his actions are more like “do what I say, not as I do” like laws do not apply to him…reminds me of a certain jackass in politics who pulls the SAME stunts on a nationwide and even worldwide level and who ALSO skirted his legal troubles and undeservedly so.
Too bad I can share here that social media post for all to see, but it shows him as his true self, a vindictive SOB. And as for his previous attempts to get Abdner’s “Ms Pacman” WR not recognized by TG, or Wiebe’s original 1M on VHS tape…OR TG stating that Wiebe was the first to get 1M on DK…that I will never stop repeating on the forums because he damn well did all of it. Now lawsuits ever resulted from it, but it all goes to show what a vindictive SOB that he really is.
I’m just here to do my victory lap. I was one of the only people here who originally said Billy would win.
Unsure how the Australian legal system works, but as some who have already commented within this post and the previously active article by Ersatz Cats, if the judge was someone who was favourably disposed towards GBF on a personal level and who also discounted all of his courtroom antics and bad behaviour, then there might be some grounds for appeal by Karl’s team.
We can all predict that in short order GBF will be “tweeting” or appearing on Podcasts such as “East Side Dave” spouting his “vindication”, but while I will not now nor ever comment about the whole “Apollo Legend” thing, nothing changes the fact that outside of this GBF will likely remain the same scheming, vindictive SOB that he has been dating back to 2004 when Wiebe’s first 1M tape was sent to TG for review, and likely even further back to 1999 or 2000 when that sham “award” was given to him in Japan.
Or should I saw “awards” due to that “second plaque” which magically appeared several years ago and which was widely debunked by videos posted by some eagle-eyed content providers on social media.
Nope…doesn’t change that assessment at all.
Judge Barlow and Junior are both absolute legends. I will be celebrating this victory tonight with beer, hot sauce, and hookers. Never surrender.
Thank you ersatz for all the updates, this was all very entertaining and funny to me.
UncleBob, you would have lost the bet with me and be out a measly $100. I was literally willing to put a donkey Kong arcade cabinet on the line for the bet. On the post called Day 1, you can read us going back and forth about this. You said you would be here to rub Billys lose in my face and you were extremely confident about that. Well, here we are. I doubt you will respond. I just wanted to point out that my prediction was correct.
What a disaster. The judge even said, in effect, that he’d have awarded more than $50k in aggravated damages but they only asked for $50. Since aggravated damages are not capped (which he directly mentioned) and the judge implied that the aggravating factors weighed heavily. This likely could have been into 7 figures if BM had asked for more. I DO NOT agree with the judge that KJ did anything to warrant any damages, aggravated or otherwise but it was clearly not a good idea to discuss the ongoing suit.
I’d be interested In learning more about the settlement offer they argued about toward the end. It definitely sounded like KJ made a settlement offer at one point which BM refused. The arguments were seemingly in relation to the standard the judge will use to award legal fees to the plaintiff? $3,000 was mentioned once along with a confidentiality clause but no more details that I heard.
In the US settlement negotiations or offers are almost never put on the trial record.
Also wondering if he can appeal. In the US, it’s not unusual to appeal an unusually large judgement and then settle out of court for a lesser amount. Although to be fair, I don’t know why BM’s team would be motivated to do that after such a mind blowing win.
I gotta say, I saw this coming a mile away. Karls lawyers massively messed up literally every single step along the way. From messing up the timeline to missing crucial information to just flat out saying wrong information that made karl look worse. They didn’t take this seriously in the slightest, and now they’re suffering for it
Disclaimer: I read all of ersatz’s writeups and saw a lot of Karl’s content as it came out, and I was waiting excitedly for Karl to win decisively.
After actually going through a lot of the pdf – I admittedly started skimming around the halfway point – and seeing the sequence of events laid out plainly, it’s obvious that Karl had no chance and should have swallowed his pride and tried to settle. I don’t think the fact that it’s an Australian court is even relevant here; clearly Karl made a completely speculative and inflammatory accusation (as far as tangible evidence is concerned, mind you) and his “retraction” was laughably disingenuous. He had so many opportunities to stop this situation from escalating.
One thing I still find puzzling is that Billy is one of the few people in the world who could decisively prove that Apollo paid him nothing by just revealing the outcome of the settlement. Does some kind of NDA forbid the disclosure, even in a court setting, or is Billy hiding something?
Having skimmed through the written judgement, I was surprised at how one-sided it is. All the undesirable aspect of Billy’s behavior were given excuses, I’ve never seen such verbal gymnastics as the section discussing whether the joyful text messages were facetious (even after admitting they do demonstrate joy, the judge refrained from drawing wider conclusions about his character). Similarly, any aggression in the cross examination was excused due to its length.
With Karl, it was the opposite – the judge jumped on any action of Karl’s he disliked to draw sweeping conclusions as to his character.
Similarly, he pooh-poohed Karl’s witnesses out of hand.
Obviously, I wanted Karl to win but it would have been an easier pill to swallow with a fair and balanced judgement. I’m also of the opinion the whole point is moot because suicide is an intensely personal decision so therefore the only one responsible was Apollo himself.
Thank you for your detailed analysis throughout, first time i’ve commented but I read each part, appreciated
Btw, having also listened to all of his Youtube material, I thought he explained clearly and thoroughly about the nature of the concerns and ultimate lawsuit so don’t get those saying Karl somehow misled us.
Yeah, no – he was rather stingy with the details. I don’t think he even said what specific claim he was being sued over other than in the one tweet mentioned in the judgement. He also muddied the waters by mentioning in his videos Mitchell’s other, later-dropped complaints that did focus on cheating.
cope.
Judge Barlow made his decision the moment Jobst’s team allowed a fart to be entered in as evidence. Clearly, Barlow has never given a damn about video games, and was focused on the area he did know something about: Australia’s hyper-cooked defo laws. His background was being a corpo attack dog for years – never giving a fig about what was right; only what he could prove. Also, he’s another of the countless judges in Australia (not just QLD) who lazily pinch off summative judgments months & months down the road. The sort who definitely fit in their jobs around their lifestyles, let’s just make that clear.
Defo laws have had a chilling effect on Aussie media for year now, as a previous commenter has noted (99% of which is literally owned by right-wing interests; shout out to Rupert, you d*g ***t). All said, I feel that Jobst could appeal damages, but not the ruling. Jobst made several decisions that played an obvious role in the decision – he has to own that. But IMO, damages rendered were excessive – prob. Barlow puffing out his chest to the world. I mean, can you name a bigger defo payout for an internet opinion video?
Last point: Barlow looks closer to PM Albanese than his court bio page picture. That more flattering picture was probably taken 15 years prior? Big catfish energy.
Robert “Porno” Mruczek, your one sided views of this lawsuit make me want to vomit, almost as disgusting as your anime porno collection. Leave this discussion to the experts and stick to collecting the filth you call artwork. I can only imagine how much you and Walter have been crying this past day since the verdict. Don’t worry, you always have your right hand to make yourself feel better. Try not to get your artwork even stickier than it already is, you deranged bastard!!!!!!! Stop hating on Billy, he is twice the man you’ll ever be
I wonder if “Phillip” has the GUTS to append his real name…probably not, and quite possibly “he” could even be Casey Ross pretending once again. Regardless, have the guts to use your real name or keep your bashing to yourself.
I wonder if you will climb out of your cellar Mr. Porno Mruczek and face me like a man
HOW can I “face you” when you won’t even reveal your real name ? Typical “anonymous” forum troll BS.
I live in L.A and am a locally undefeated MMA fighter with a record of 4-0. You DONT wanna mess with me Mr. Porno. Phillip Edward Blackburn is my full name and I live very close to the UCLA campus if you ever wanna test me out. Beware, you wouldn’t stand a chance
The chickens have finally come home to roost. I am here chilling on island time with my big booty Valkyries while Karl and Walter are crying on each other’s shoulders. Now you will both have to leave mine and Billy’s name out of your mouths. The truth always comes out in time.
You’re an idiot. The truth is that Billy Mitchell cheated and the outcome of this lawsuit as NOT vindicated that liar. Billy is a liar and so are you.
Sometimes the robots win in Berzerk, (well they always win in the end). In other words, sometimes the “bad guy wins”. I do think Billy lost by winning. I was a Billy supporter years ago and am no longer. Because of the information that has surfaced. . And there are many more like myself out there. Karl is young and has plenty of time to hit the reset button.
According to Australian legal law on defamation the right verdict has been delivered. Purely factually poor Karl did defame Mitchell given Karl never checked his sources on Apollo. Everything else was fluff and whilst using Mitchell’s character (as in cheating scumbag) as context simply didn’t mean anything compared to the facts.
I feel sorry for Karl but sadly it is his fault.
I won!! By a lot!!!! We need a retrial ASAP
Yes, you’re right Triforce Johnson.
“The truth always comes out in time.”
😉
Someone on a local reddit page wrote the following
‘Saw Billy Mitchell on a flight recently from LA to Brisbane, I recognised him because he was wearing the full outfit (black suit, USA tie) on a fucking 13hr flight!
The craziest part, he was sat in economy the whole time, then when it was time to get off, he went up and sat in a business seat while everyone got off, then left the plane last?? Did he want people to see him in business on their way out the plane?? So bizarre, and from the sounds of it, on brand since everything I read about him is that he’s a dickhead.’
True story from many years back. I was at an airport, talking to GBF, and his flight was imminently leaving (last call) and he pointedly waited until the last possible second to stroll over for boarding. There’s a serious ego issue with that guy, and there are so many other anecdotes to draw that conclusion from as well.
The day we were in Laconia for the shooting of the “Chasing Ghosts” recreation of the “Life” spread the producer only had a small window within which to have the street cleared AND with the proper lighting. So, with minutes to go he strolls out from around a nearby corner…flag tie as usual…just because he could. He must draw some personal satisfaction out of making people wait…hard to explain.
I really appreciate all of your posts. I am a fan of Karl Jobst and it’s because of him that I even heard of Silly Bitchel. I have been following this lawsuit ever since it started all these years ago, and since Karl didn’t post about it often (for obvious reasons), I’ve been coming to your website for the updates since then. I was watching the live judgement yesterday, and my jaw hit the floor when I heard the verdict. It pains me that the judge sided with Silly Bitchel, and I can’t help but wonder if there’s anything Karl can do in the Australian courts to appeal it. Although this is a disappointing and dissatisfying ending to a story that I’ve followed since inception, I appreciate all of your hard work to report on it and give the wider audience all of the information they need to make their own decision on this case. If any other Silly Bitchel cases arise, I will return to hear your take on things! (Who knows? Maybe he’ll sue Moist Critical next, and Lord knows the American courts won’t tolerate Silly Bitchel’s shenanigans!)
I read through significant portions of the document and am shocked by how much the judge took Billy’s deposition of personal distress at face value. The judge agreed it is established that Billy is a cheater, liar, and serial litigant. He also agreed that his reputation was basically trashed as a result of his prior behavior. But he then proceeded to consider Billy’s testimony of his own distress as being completely reliable, accepted two event cancellations as indicating the complete downfall of his reputation, and siding with Billy because Karl said something mean and didn’t cite it properly. To believe Billy’s sob story to be true is a flagrant disregard for any of the prior considerations outlined in the trial. The judgement is pretty bogus even if there is reason to consider for both sides, but the damages are fucking insane.
If the judgement itself cannot be contested, I sincerely hope the ridiculous damages award will be further reviewed.
Three basic reasons Mitchell won:
1. Judge didn’t understand Internet & social media
2. Jobst’s cavalier attitude on Youtube convinced the judge any defamation he may have caused was deliberate & malicious
3. Defense failed to show that public was already blaming Mitchell for Legend’s death within a day or two of his passing ergo the defamation can’t be credited to Jobst
Moral of the story
– No such thing as an airtight case
– Good guys have to play by the rules, bad guys don’t
– When you get in a court case, STFU about it
– Cite your sources and don’t speak your own opinions if you can cite someone else’s
The marked shift of sentiment against Jobst is simple to explain: the only thing the internet loves to hate more than a villain is a fallen “hero.”
Billy may be a vain, litigious asshole who thinks he’s right, but Karl showed to be a vain, unprepared show-off who preached he was morally right. In the end, they’re both wrong, but only one was so sure of being right that his grandstanding toppled down on top of him. Of course the internet’s gonna shift to dunking on him.
I was the first one on this website to predict Billy’s victory and I never changed my stance. I was all over Karls YouTube channel saying that as well. I bet people feel silly now for calling me a dumbass. I tried telling people from the start it was about the Apollo situation.
LONG LIVE THE KING OF KONG!
BILLY MITCHELL CAN’T STOP WINNING!
I think as a final comment to this whole trial and verdict, all I can say is that the world is a strange place.
And even though you might have the strength to stand up for yourself, and dish out the same level of attack in defense of yourself, you won’t always win because the universe simply won’t allow it.
And the more you fight the system, the more you lose.
My best advice for Karl, is to move on. Sure, if you can appeal the level of costs awarded, then do so provided it won’t cast you further into debt.
But, move on from this chapter and start fresh. You have plenty of time to make things happen.
On the other hand, even though Billy was handed a W, he lost the moral battle and the trial revealed who he truly is as a person. His “career” is over as a professional video game player, but he should stay in his restaurant business now because of this storm. Showing up to conventions could be a risk for him.
And no, that’s not a personal threat, but a valid opinion on what could happen. Look at the lunatics protesting Tesla for heavens sake 🙄
Anyways, if this is my last comment, I bid you all a fond farewell 👍 it was an interesting trial and even stranger verdict.
Murphy, out 👋.
Lol, ok Trumper.
He can’t keep getting away with it
I told you so. You can’t sweep up the truth janny.
[…] Oof […]
I do believe the judge made the right decision. Even while I was in agreement with a lot of the bad things that Billy has dcuone to people, in this particular incident, I really felt that Karl went over the line. It is like Karl wanted to punish Billy for all his bad deeds, he was the crusader. In saying that, Karl really deserved what he did. I remember reading some of the articles on here and thinking sometimes that “you know thats not really cool what Karl did”, but then had to remind myself of all the stuff BIlly has done over the years.
The judge clearly knew the case better than any of the other cases. Karl was a bully, and Karl does not come across as likable guy in public. I heard someone else say that this would never happen in America, it would have been dropped. I know that it would not have been dropped in my country of Canada.
Anyways, it is not like Karl is going to suffer any debt from this trial as he got a lot of money from supporters for the trial and I heard “notch” was supporting this case. Karl will have to tread careful water in the future. I think he is too hard on people and his whole channel is about putting down other people right after they’ve already been put down by their own community.
I dunno, the words the judge said really had an effect on me and I was able to see it his way. Where would be as a gaming community if this went the other way? Karl bragged over and over and over again in the the threads while being behind the computer.
I felt like this was a push by the judge, to make us think ” hey what karl did” that is not acceptable in the community.
It shouldn’t be, it didn’t feel like it was the “right” thing to do
Chip Rivers
i disagree. some of us still believe mitchell is the reason we don’t have apollo legend anymore even after the refuted claim. settling suits like this (in my honest opinion) can negatively impact one’s health due to said grapevine effect. if fighting back against bullies like mitchell makes you the bully and/or is punished because of it, then we (“we” as in relaying to higher-up) should be suing the system / the government as a whole until we’re able to fight back without consequence.
i personally fear that other youtubers (coffeezilla is one) is going to be affected by this from here on, true or false.
and thank you so much ersatz cats for your journalism. it was fun. greetings from afar.
p.s. f*** anyone who thinks snitches get stitches, report anything and everything
Great to see karl lost to Billy. carl jumped on the band-wagon that is Billy Mitchell. Trying to get noticed and more subscribers. Until he messed up (and to all the gofundme donors) like a typical ‘influencer’ thinking his words won’t get him in trouble. Well, now hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. He said he needed a break as all this was taking a toll on him. YET HE PUT HIMSELF IN THERE haha. I hope this teaches karl a lesson. Stick to speed running little aussie.
I guess you better get another gofundme going or should they just send the money to Billy directly?
Suck it to all the Billy haters. He won the Australian kong off just to rub that into their faces too
Knowing Karl and his sycophants, there is a fair chance he’ll try to appeal this in some way and get another round of donations going.
It’s really astounding, honestly. Even in the writeup for this article, Karl’s biggest fan here proudly, loudly insists anyone who “fairly” (A fun weasel word) examines the evidence would HAVE to come out against Billy. Because of course, anyone would see that you can just accuse some guy of driving someone to suicide because they’re a dickhead. Totally reasonable, definitely not insane basement dwelling lunatic behavior.
Hilariously, he proves himself a hypocrite in this very article too. “Karl not being able to make false accusations is just freedom. But don’t you DARE disagree with me, or get BANNED you TERRIBLE, EVIL person! Free speech for me, not for thee!”
No self awareness, no apologies, no ability to learn, just pure angst and misery directed at other people.
Honestly? This couldn’t have happened to a more deserving person than Karl and the people he surrounds himself with. And sadly, they’ll never have the awareness to realize that ordinary people are going to see it that way.
Just a reminder the the sad man named “UncleBob” on the trial Day 1 post argued with me about who would win this lawsuit and was willing to lose money over it. If Ersatz cats deletes those posts, I still have screenshots of everything. And I will post it all on my YouTube channel called Justinicus24. It sucks to lose, but you should all own up to it and move on.
Why did you save the screenshots? It… making a bet online isn’t legally binding? I recall you being the one unwilling to actually take up the bet, also, favouring the much more unwieldy DK arcade machine as stakes, iirc.
Also, what needs to be “owned up to”? That we supported someone against a vexatious litigant and inveterate liar, who has been proven to manufacture evidence and lose actual evidence of something he claims to be his life’s biggest achievement?
Sure I’ll own up to that, and being woefully bemused that the judge can acknowledge GBF as a liar and a cheat and still somehow rule in his favour.
I can tell after 30 seconds that you are Robert Mruczek from your comments and how you say “GBF” it’s not hard to tell once I’ve read all the comments on this page. The structure of your paragraphs is more than obvious. I have to wonder why you are so upset over me trying to make a bet last September… Weird.
Justin, you need to cool your jets. You made a 50/50 call – you’re Nostradamus, now? Don’t bet all your life savings on lotto tickets just yet.
Seeing you reply to comment after comment, exclaiming TOTAL VICTORY over and over, makes you look like (more of) a spastic. Just put the fries in the bag, and have a lie down.
Its not a coin flip Robert. This was a bet that nobody else on the internet thought Billy would win. I’d be mad too if I were you. It sucks to lose, I’ve been there.
For what it’s worth, I respect you for being in the Kong of Kong movie. You came across as being the most credible person in the entire movie.
My original comment was to the guy named UncleBob, not you. But thanks for calling me Nostradamus, that’s not the worst thing I’ve been called.
I mean… Robert and I have had some conversations on the site in some of the more recent posts from EC, and he seems like a guy who has been through the trenches in his time and has a tale or two to tell. I say GBF because I appreciate the reasons behind Robert calling him that, doubly so given recent court rulings. If you want to believe he and I are one, as well as some of the other people you are accusing of being Robert, that’s certainly your prerogative.
I would like to point out that the only person getting upset about a bet made (or not) around seven months ago with random strangers on a niche website is you, however. Again, your prerogative, but there’s no need to project emotions that aren’t felt, certainly not in my case.
All I am is befuddled by the judge’s decision – and the reasons given for it – having read the information available, kindly provided on this website by someone who has worked hard to gather it all together, and curious if the available steps forward for Karl, as well as hope he can deal with this both pragmatically and emotionally.
That’s a weird take on me willing to bet an actual Donkey Kong arcade cabinet that costs about $2000. I said I would bet that rather than $100… Read the comments again.
Karl is a massive idiot who cannot just shut up about anything. He makes bottom of the barrel-raking content mill drama garbage, piecemealed out into short videos each stuffed to the gills with sponsorships. His announcement that he lost, For Christ’s Sake, has a sponsorship link in it. He’s never been fully honest about the stuff he’s said and believed and the people he’s hung out with in the past, which makes it hard to believe he thinks he was ever really in the wrong. To be clear, Karl Jobst is not someone I wanted to root for here. But I really wish Billy had lost…
To me, Homer Simpson’s comment (https://perfectpacman.com/2025/04/01/oof/#comment-32227) seems to be the most helpful in understanding the outcome. Most of us (including Karl) seem to have seen this whole thing as a question of who’s the better person or who told more lies, but it turns out this case was just about the question whether Karl did defame Billy or not. Did he defame Billy? The judge said yes. Pretty simple.
We however were all stuck in the thinking of this case being about something more general concerning Billy, when it was not.
I’m no legal expert. I wonder what it would have taken in order to move the actual question at hand aside and widen the case to some broader context … if such is ever done in court.
People’s hyperfocusing on details are so bad everywhere.
“Karl making the lawsuit seems about cheating, I’m being misled!” claims are erroneous if you consider Billy served Karl multiple lawsuits that most of it being retracted to begin with – because of the cheating – and his settlement with Apollo in the first place is precisely about the cheating issue.
Karl’s lost, but it still doesn’t change that “Billy often serves frivolous lawsuit” claims when he used it as a threat to people questioning his credibility, launched it, and then retracts most of them – including to the one that Apollo settled with. As far as I know, even Karl got at least 2 lawsuit which one sticks but the other remains frivolous.
The notion of “frivolous lawsuits ruins lives” exists way before Karl made the blunder to attribute Billy to Apollo’s passing and fail to make a big retraction out of it, and Billy certainly used it to against Apollo which he settled.
But Karl’s team unable to set this up pre trial baffles me to no end.
Billy is right on the sentence he is not the reason liable to Apollo’s passing, but God all the other things did during that time will *never* sit right with me more than Karl’s high horses. Also, I would disagree with the damages that Karl will needs to pay up in the future.
It’s feels like paying someone else’s broken home and also paying for a new one because you accidentally stepped on a century old cracked wooden stairs, breaking it.
Been thinking about this even more. While I am unhappy with the outcome of the trial, I do agree with the judgement finding that Karl defamed Billy.
But I have a very difficult time understanding how the judge arrived at the assessment of damages.
Firstly, I cannot accept that the judge accepted Billy’s sob story as credible testimony, after previously accepting that Karl was able to establish him as a cheater, liar, and vexatious litigant.
Secondly, the award seems to also serve as a punitive damage and future defamation deterrent against what is essentially cyber-bullying. The montage of thumbnails was powerful, and the judge sympathized with Billy from the onset. Karl absolutely was bullying Billy. It wasn’t unwarranted because Billy is a jerk and also himself a bully.
The courtroom is not the forum to judge the economic damage of cyber-bullying and opens up a VERY slippery slope. Karl didn’t do himself any favors, but his behavior should have been used to establish the defamation. I do not agree in any way with the assessment of damages which are based on two things: Billy’s testimony and punitive damage against cyber-bullying. The judge appears to not have been able to leave his bias out of the final judgement.
Personally, I don’t agree that Karl defamed Billy but I can reasonably understand the opinion.
I also find it ludicrous that Judge took Billy’s story at face value just because he felt that he was being sincere. I think no hard evidence was submitted that would backed up his claims of personal harm. Wouldn’t he have photos of the weight loss? Or clinical findings from that time? Judge didn’t seem to question it.
Reading through the judgement, I can give you my understanding of thought process concerning damages.
– I didn’t see any opinion that this verdict serves as deterrent against cyber bullying (but I may have missed it).
– Judge assessed the damages by comparing to other cases he deemed similar enough. He also went with Billy’s narrative that Karl implied Billy hounded AL to death, even though Karl in fact never said that. Judge thinks that this is pretty similar to accusing him of murder and Karl’s reach was substantial. Thus, the damage to Billy is at the higher end of the maximum amount that can be awarded [552-555].
– Judge gives Billy the requested aggravated damages because he thinks Karl’s behavior by not publishing an appropriate apology was particularly damaging. He explicitly states that he would have awarded more had Billy asked for more. [535-536,559-560]
On a completely different matter, it is very annoying that the page numbers in the Table of Contents in the document does not correspond to the actual page numbers in the main body. How can this go unnoticed? How unprofessional.
It was insane to me how the judge outright admits to finding most of Billy’s witnesses to be reliable and trustworthy, and finding most of Karl’s witnesses as obsessive or having a vendetta.