by ersatz_cats
Just a quick update for you all. We almost have a verdict in the epic court battle between gaming legend Karl Jobst and disgraced cheater Billy Mitchell. The Queensland court website has been quietly updated with a new hearing date:
Remember, we’re talking Australia stuff. So that last item is not January 4th, thank goodness. It’s April 1st, which really means March 31st for slowpoke Americans like myself. Yes, the judgment in the Karl Jobst case will be delivered in Brisbane on April Fools Day lmao. For all the nonsense that’s gone on in this and the other Billy Mitchel lawsuits, it does seem a bit appropriate, although assuming Karl wins I hope this doesn’t mean there’ll be any take-backsies.
That’s it. That’s all I got right now. Just wanted to get this update out the door, so people can stop speculating, and so that poor “Day 7” comment section can finally get some rest. If you have no idea what all this is about, please check out my extensive coverage of the trial so far, at the links below:
https://perfectpacman.com/2024/09/15/karl-day-0/
https://perfectpacman.com/2024/09/16/karl-day-1/
https://perfectpacman.com/2024/09/17/karl-day-2/
https://perfectpacman.com/2024/09/18/karl-day-3/
https://perfectpacman.com/2024/09/19/karl-day-3-4/
https://perfectpacman.com/2024/09/20/karl-day-4/
https://perfectpacman.com/2024/09/24/karl-day-5/
https://perfectpacman.com/2024/10/11/karl-day-6/
https://perfectpacman.com/2024/10/23/karl-day-7/
Oh, and speaking of Billy Mitchell stuff, if you’re wondering what I’ve been up to, normally I don’t drop a lot of clues about my next project until it’s near completion, but I have been working on something longer than my usual fare. No, it’s not more gushing about Dragon Quest, lol. It’s a big multi-part write-up covering the entirety of the Billy Mitchell / David Race phone recording lawsuit, front-to-back, cover-to-cover, soup-to-nuts. There’s a lot of crazy stuff in that case which I’m only finding now that I’m taking the time to really comb through it all. No ETA, and it definitely won’t be finished before the Australia verdict, but it’s pretty far along. Watch this space for that in the coming months.
Here’s wishing Karl good energy for what’s sure to be a stressful two weeks.
Great stuff đ
Assuming all goes well, I was wondering if you could do an interview with Karl and post it here.
It’d be like the final installment to finish everything off đ
And I’m hoping this judgement goes Karl’s way. Win or lose though, here’s hoping we can leave the whole Billy Mitchell saga behind.
I’m looking forward to Karl’s vid though, it should be a banger đ
I’d love to do an interview with Karl. I’m sure we could make that happen. But it would probably be better on YouTube (like my interviews with Justin Elliot and Robert Mruczek) than text.
It is really sad, in my view; the path and the decisions that Billy Mitchell made. Even if he wins, he has lost the respect of much of the retro gaming world. He did not need to be the âgreatest video game player of all timeâ. There really are not many retro video game celebrities out there, and true fans would not have cares if he was âthird place.â
Agreed. Dude couldn’t get over his own ego.
GBF started his path in an era when being “the best” was all the rage. Unfortunately, much like his fellow Floridian on the console gaming side of the coin, he let that goal get the best of him. That “South Park” cartoon episode had him pegged down to a “T” with his having to be “first” in everything. Small wonder he announced that big event in the MTV segment in 2000 (which he never did because Wiebe came along and stole some of his thunder).
GBF also was not just content with being “first” with the score rankings, claiming over the years to be the first to get to a DK “kill screen” (reported, perhaps, but as a matter of fact worldwide, unprovable). He also claimed to being the first to discover the “no-fire” trick in “Galaga”, the “DKJr” warp trick and the no-enemies “Q*Bert” trick…all of which are unprovable. AND then there’s the “first perfect pacman” BS.
Who knows…if the lawsuit does not go well for him, he might be the first in his family to go bankrupt.
if he SIMPLY could have accepted the fact that records get beaten and records change hands maybe his entire legacy in gaming would have been markedly different…but that simple perspective seems to be beyond his capacity after so very long as it is now ingrained into his personality to be regarded as either number one or as the best this-or-that. That entire Japan-plaque BS from decades back cemented this into his personae and was a PR stunt orchestrated with his symbiote (i.e. Walter Day).
I said it before, and I will say it again…I don’t hate the man (GBF), but as a former referee I could not stand then nor now his endless need for grandstanding and arrogance/false bravado in gaming.
That guy who donated the Neo Geo to ACAM in NH and made that video…that was a personae. But with GBF, that’s his real personality. I used to say on the forum back when I was still a supporter of him that there were “two” of him…one for the media, and one which was the real deal. Now, I’m not so sure as over the past near-two decades they are pretty much one in the same.
Robert Mruczek, I appreciate your feedback. You are greatly respected and admired by the gaming community.
Glad to see the update. Thank you
On an aside, I’ve been most curious what his nemesis, Roy Shildt, is thinking about these proceedings, so I checked out his website and it is gone !!
His “shockandawesome” site, which hasn’t been updated even since the trial began, NOW indicates “coming soon to register.com” and the wayback machine’s last “snapshot” of it is from October of 2024 and as recently as January of 2025 it indicated site not available.
He had interview on youtube during pqndemic, i tried to linked it to you but it seems being marked as spam months back. He talk alot about billy score too just search “scene world podcast Roy Shildt” he dont care about billy score he buy its real since he worries they would purge old acores including him also he more cares with gwr gaming listing
One last thing Robert, it’s better to move on about Roy, before the grudge you keep repeating become another meme, been a while but basically :
Roy Legs already fucked him over,as people who last saw him witness during a con. his wife force him to get rid his prized missile command machine, all he worries is the GWR record he still on and he also clinging to the hope his book or comics taken by producer into movie or the sort.. I like Roy as a video game asshole, the more you mention his antics the more I am amazed lol he worse than i thought obviously.
in the end Robert you will eventually be remembered with better legacy compared to these other classic gamers heck I lost respect to Dwayne after his creation of fake pacman anniversarry fiasco
Roy is pretty much a chapter in classic gaming history now…and I seriously think that we won’t be hearing from him anytime soon.
The very last time that I am 100% sure someone reliable made contact with him was within the final several months before Tony Temple’s book was published. I was told that he made contact with Roy…I do not know who initiated the contact…and that while the call started amicably Roy quickly went into his usual “shtick”.
What he’s done, he’s done…and it makes for good forum fodder at best at this point. His last indirect involvement with me was his last series of “YouTube” videos in which he accused me of being the REAL owner of TG !! Those always cracked me up đ
In truth he was not “as bad” as Rudy Ferretti and his nonsense. Basically Rudy was a more social media savvy and technically well-versed version of Roy and he resorted to tactics that even Roy would not dream of. But again, that’s another chapter in classic gaming history, and a sad one at that.
Roy was right about Billy and right about Twin Galaxies long before they were both proven to be frauds. He deserves his props. Remember, you came around to the truth only when it was proven to the general public. Roy had the guts to tell the truth before it was proven and before it was the popular opinion. You owe him an apology for the way you guys treated him in the past. He was right and you and your buddies were wrong.
Roy was right about GBF cheating…but his accusations were NOT based on empirical evidence, they were at the time merely conjecture that just happened to turn out right.
But considering his many…MANY…antics over the years, in my case from 2001 thru approx 2014 or 2015…I don’t owe him an apology. Not especially after he nearly got me fired from my place of employment. Thankfully Jace shut him down on my behalf at that point.
I think the Roy Shildt stuff is more complicated than many people want to admit. Yes, he was correct about Billy and Todd and company being frauds, but like Mruczek says, there’s nothing empirically to say this was based on real evidence. And the problem there is, seeing who Roy Shildt is, it becomes impossible to separate his hunch from – though I hate to use the word – jealousy for being left out. Of course, Billy and Roy could never coexist, as they both want to be top dogs, and since Billy was more socially and politically savvy, it makes sense that Billy kept his seat inside the vanguard while Roy got exiled. And while Roy was indeed wronged in a sense (having to continually advocate for his on-and-off-again score), his abusive streak has been acknowledged by many, and I don’t think Mruczek should have to apologize under those terms.
Going back to the time before the MAME evidence, when Billy was just this cocky clown in King of Kong who was ridiculously full of himself and butthurt over having to share the stage with Wiebe, I don’t think enough people who saw that and thought “Man, this guy’s insufferable” realize Roy Shildt would’ve been every bit as insufferable in that position. They just like him because he happened to be the thorn in the side of the guy who, for the moment, had won. While I don’t mean to be rude, as this is a direct reply, I think many folks who like Roy do so because he pisses off people they want to see pissed off, not because they truly want a gaming community where “Mr. Awesome” is left to his own devices.
Yes, Roy Shildt was correct about Billy being a fraud long before most, but I don’t think it was wrong for folks like Mruczek, or myself, or anyone else to wait for a more concrete threshold of evidence than Roy was eagerly willing to accept.
Well said, EC !!
What a lot of people probably don’t realize is the full extent of what dealing with people like Roy (and Rudy) were like. Calls at almost every hour of the day, to both home and business numbers, a never-ending amount of negative social media posts, and THEN there were the really bad antics such as my nearly getting fired because Roy kept on badgering my company’s receptionist non-stop and it got WAY out of control.
Rudy was not opposed to sending me “packages” to the mailroom of my place of business, and I’d rather not get into what the contents were.
Some of the worst antics from Roy…calling a fellow referee during a relatives funeral proceedings so as to again press his “Missile Command” claims, and then pestering the rehabilitation center that a certain classic arcade gamer was at so often that they shut down ALL incoming calls at that point, for a short while anyway.
He also called every single one of the supermarket franchise locations in Florida where Chris Ayra worked just to pester him as well. And then there is this which has to be read to be believed.
Remember an old TV show episode about some kid with certain powers who effectively became a “Missile Command” champion ? Well Roy contacted as I was told the office of the president of New Line Cinema, the company that had to do with production of the TV series, and he pretended to be calling from the school of the president’s child or children claiming that there was an emergency. So the receptionist patched the call thru and then Roy quickly proceeded to complain about that TV episode.
So for all of this, and a heck of a lot more, I really do not have any reason to apologize to Roy with the sole exception perhaps for mis-spelling his name as “Schildt” instead of “Shildt” with some of my earlier posts as a TG referee. BUT, since Walter had someone relegate my original TG account to “Guest” status AND as most of the pre-2013 TG forum has since been deleted, that’s all moot now.
I would actually disagree with this.
Roy guessed that Billy and Todd were frauds in part because of their mannerisms, their history and the records they had. Todd in particular, had records that were utterly *ludicrous* , records that anyone with a passing familiarity with the games in question would go “wait… what?”
He didn’t have the evidence to prove it, but it wasn’t like he was shooting in the dark
I can’t recall the specifics, but I’m really not sure whether Roy ever voiced suspicions about Todd.
As for GBF, outside of the Ironman 1985 event, I’m not sure if there were ever any other documented events where the two were in attendance at the same time, and back in the day YouTube was still not around…so I can’t see how Roy saw GBF’s “mannerisms”.
Fast forward from the late 1980’s to approx 1997-1998 when TG came back as a website and then released the 1st Book of Records…neither Roy nor GBF were really in the media much, and Roy’s own antics did not resurface until shortly after April of 2001.
As for GBF publicly playing, only a select few events took place where he played in public, none of which were for records, and his then-TG-accepted records were all on VHS, none of which were shared on the internet.
So, I can’t understand how you came to the assessment that Roy had suspicions based on his “mannerisms” when he never actually saw him play.
But if you mean to say it was based on GBF’s media interviews, then Roy’s own such interviews gave more than a pause that he himself was a fraud…and by early 2007 he proved as much with his comments about his MC marathon score, and earlier than that between 2001-2006 with his ever-changing anecdotes about his 1985 Ironman score.
So, in effect, Roy’s assessment and suspicions were based solely on personal conjecture and not much else. For example, he made a big stink about Chris Ayra’s performance in some event, and he used to relish in mentioning how Chris finished last “behind an 8 year old girl” of however he stated it in his website, but that’s what happens when you have a multi-game event and you only play one of the event’s titles. Roy leaves that part out.
Hopefully this can all be put behind everyone involved. Can’t imagine how stressful it has been. Only question remains is how much will the winner gloat?
I think Karl will have a wry smile on his face with a little hint of “F U” in his video, but I can’t see him gloating too much, it’ll be more of an angry response I guess.
As for billy, if he loses, it could be his whole world falling down and even worse. He’s the maker of his own demise, and he’s very offensive on stuff, so it’s his own fault, but i can only imagine how he’ll feel being in 1/2 mill debt with loss after loss in court.
It’ll be a tough pill to swallow that’s for sure.
Regardless of who wins, collecting a judgement will be difficult if not nearly impossible. Anyone as litigious as GBF is likely creditor proof. He Probably has no hard assets in his name. He will be out his legal fees but I doubt he will be paying Karlâs fees or costs anytime soon. I hope I am wrong however.
I have to imagine that over the past several years GBF has been moving assets into his wife’s name.
I have to imagine that his biggest “assets”, besides his home (which is untouchable under Florida law), would be his stake in the family business and whatever remaining liquid assets he may still have. And without being an expert on tax law and family business ownership, I am not 100% sure that his stake can be handed over to anyone outside of his own family (i.e. mom/dad, brother(s) and sister(s) however many there are).
So my guess, again if the judge rules in Karl’s favour, is that his stake in the family business is going to come into play for sure as I do not believe he will have, or even want to, dish out mid-six-figures to anyone. The problem is the value of the family stake he has…with the current economy, “dining out” may be severely curtailed, which would definitely have an adverse impact on any stake valuation. Heck, it may not even be enough to cover a judgment in Karl’s favour, never mind GBF’s own legal fees…and good luck with him trying NOT to pay those !!
Time will tell what happens. And no matter what, I still cannot get over to this day how a grown man is in court for several years over his “Donkey Kong” and “Pacman” scores. I’m certain that this whole ordeal created MASSIVE stress on his family unit…and was it truly worth it, regardless of how it goes ??
IF the judge rules in Karl’s favour, my first guess is that GBF will declare personal bankruptcy.
GBF still believes that he “won” in the outcome of the TG lawsuit, but the damage to his reputation is done and all the travels down a “Road to Redemption” of future “perfect pacman” attempts won’t do a thing to change that.
I’m wondering if…again, in the event that the judge rules in Karl’s favour…whether there will be any caveats included in the ruling, such as GBF is NOT allowed to promote on social media the notion that Karl lost the judgement/ruling decision. GBF has already demonstrated the capacity to quickly run to social media (as he did after the TG outcome) to promote the notion that he came out ahead.
But all the spin-doctoring in the world will not help him if the judge rules in favour of Karl.
Now, if the OTHER possibility happens, be prepared for a whirlwind series of posts and interviews…probably starting with East Side Dave, and probably some social media lies coming from Casey Ross in short order.
But in case GBF loses…he has BOTH Karl to pay AND his own lawyers, and I’m willing to bet that he stiffs both of them should that happen.
BTW, on an aside, I’m curious what his “expert”, Zyda, has been up to as of late. That quack should have been fired from the university that he had tenure at immediately, tenure or not. Why a university would allow such a quack to infect the student body with his BS is beyond me.
Chip Rivers here. I do look forward to reading your next pieces on the David race saga.
Last we talked in comments was about Dragon Quest, I completed the game.
It was an experience that I was so surprised that I enjoyed so much. As I had already played Dragon Quest games before. Recently Dq9 before that, but this i did not expect to put in an hour to three everyday playing and the experience being just so darn fun.
Dragon Quest was very new to me and I thought it would be like repeating and not as much fun as I had imagined in my head when I saw the box art for the game. It was like it said HD 2D and I did not know what to expect. It sounded like 2D but just some rounded pixel edges to HD and boy was I given a trip to a place in my head that was pure nostalgic joy.
Because of that experience and the effort that Square Enix went to, I mentioned that because I was so impressed with Dq3 HD2D that I would give FF7 remake a try. This was again something that I would not have probably done hadn’t been blown away by Dq3s update.
FF7 original experience to me was like I was half enjoying it (playing it on a ps2 in 2008) and then half lost when navigating certain points in the map system. I enjoyed playing FF1 to FF6 on the playstation 1 with the remastered ones which were 16 bit or 32 bit updates. Anyways it was hard to appreciate the story and understand materia and summons.
Playing FF7 Remake was like being able to understand and appreciate the game in a way that had me addicted and playing longer hours a day than Dq3 hd2d. I never thought that was possible. I ended up learning the game really well and it kept me playing over 4 hour to 6 hour goes someday.
I beat it and I was proud that I did it considering that it is real time combat. It was hard to get used to and I almost put the game down thinking that they had gone too far with the combat system. I ended up playing in my own. way with full control normal at around the halfway point.
I am now playing FF7 rebirth and that is even better than remake. Im half way through that with about 70 hours and have done every quest so far.
All these were the PC version.. I am running a laptop with a 4060 rtx a G6x 9kg gigabyte I picked up in canada for cheap. I’ve fun everything on max quality and 1080p and I get 60fps.
I have to tell you that you should do reviews of these games. Amazing..
Pretty sure EC has an article on this very website about what happened to Zyda. I wonât spoil the details, but wowzers itâs cringey as heck.
That one RE Zyda I read…I was curious as to how that quack is doing now (i.e. still at the University, still has tenure, or personae-non-grata at that place, etc).
Personally he should have been laughed out of his position by the entirety of that school’s Board of Directors as well as all of his colleagues…the man is a quack and even worse than the proverbial snake-oil salesmen from the old west.
April 1st LOL
I was under the impression Zyda was quietly encouraged to retire by the university (presumably with a heavy implication if he didnât, heâd get fired) but I cannot for the life of me find anything about that.
I did find the following link having to do with his retirement (May 15, 2023) but nothing to suggest that he was forced out or encouraged to leave.
Might be one of those behind-the-scenes things that we will never know of find out about. And we know dang well that he won’t be voluntarily sharing any such details either.
https://dailytrojan.com/2024/02/06/founding-director-of-usc-games-sued-for-sexual-harassment/
Wow…just 1-2 days to go !! Hard to believe that the “finale” of the past 5 years is imminent.
Just curious how this goes down…does the judge have to go thru the motions of entering the courtroom and reading his decision and write-up from top-to-bottom as a matter of record ? And assuming that happens as it should, when does the outcome get entered into the associated court/municipal website ?
3pm local time of court and no info yet
Iâm sure Karl has a video to go the moment the decision is made provided he wins
Or GBF has a statement the moment the decision is made provided he wins (I donât know where or what platform he uses, I just see or hear his side second hand from others)
Oops i got my days mixed up itâs only the 31st so in 24hrs we should know
The delivery of judgment will be live-streamed!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d-R-dY_aPto
Just got this from Karl’s Twitter.
Thanks for the link.
I should be able to tune in as it’ll be 3am in my timezone (Ireland & UK).
Hopefully the judge gets this right. And that when the verdict is delivered, it isn’t laced with legal jargon.
It is true. The judgment hearing will be streamed live on YouTube at the link above. It starts about 12 hours from now.
Note that, even though it’s on YouTube, any recording / restreaming / etc of the hearing would be considered contempt of court in Australia. Do with that information what you will.
im gonna lol when the courts toss this out for being a frivolous suit of internet drama and dinosaur video games
i mean i know the likelihood of that is next to nothing but c’mon that would be the perfect anticlimactic ragebait ending
I could see this going either way, but I really want to see how the GBF fans rationalize a loss.
Nearly 5 mins to go, I’m nervous for Karl đŹ
Let’s go đđđ
Same! The moment we’ve been waiting for has finally come.
Stream just turned on!
WE’RE LIVE! GO, GO, GO!
What a sham
Karl lost.
damn… he lost.
Damn. He got away. Again.
Dang, karl lost bad
“His lance was not as strong as he believed”
That was a really sharp admonishment…the judge was really not happy with Karl.
That pleading error that Karl’s attorneys made early on looks like it may have ended up being the whole ballgame. This sucks. If that pleading had been entered properly, it appears to defeat all of the Mitchell-favoring holdings by the court.
Yep 100%. Its unfortunate, but it the court of law little mistakes like this can make all the difference.
In this case it did.
Karl got sloppy with how he handled all this and it bit him in the ass
AU$350,000 + interest AU$3,4678.50
I’m shocked at how bad this went…
I didn’t think GBF’s reputation was harmed because of the Apollo stuff, the only discussion I ever see about Mitchel is him being a cheat, not a killer.
That’s 390k awarded to GBF (300k damages, 50k aggravated damages, 40k interest) and likely all of his fees too. Ouch.
Is this an April foolâs joke?
Unbelievable. What a let-down.
Are you doing a write-up of the full judgment ersatz? Would love to hear your opinion as to how the judge could reach these conclusions.
I’m finishing up a brief posting updating on the hearing. Then I’ll work on a full post-mortem on the judgment and how it happened, although I’ll wait until at least after the costs stuff gets figured out.
Approx US$ 250,000
Unfortunately this appears to be the case of Australia Law vs U.S. Law.
Australian law appears far more strict when it comes to punishing alleged defamation. I think this would have been far harder to argue in a U.S. Court. I was concerned reading through other examples of defamation and was starting to get concerned about Karl’s chances. I guess I was right in thinking that.
GBF comes away with a win here, but we all still know he cheated.
Karl’s attorneys screwed up big time in the pleadings, not being able to argue that Karl took steps to confirm what he understood about the settlement and that he had reason to believe what had heard was true was absolutely fatal. It just made him look purely malicious.
Yeah it was such a serious error that if it happened in a U.S. case it would ruin that attorney’s reputation for years to come.
By not pleading Karl’s defense on due diligence, the judge was forced to hold, uncontested, Billy’s allegations that Karl did not perform any, which in turn was the primary element needed to characterize Karl’s statements as recklessly defamatory.
Ouch, not only a loss but way higher damages than I expected. A huge win for fans of corruption, lies and cheating.
See I don’t get this only because I’m not an attorney but this whole thing felt incredibly obvious it was all about Apollo? How are people so confused it’s not about the cheating? But when I remember back to reading the day by day proceedings, there was hardly anything done for Karl’s side about that issue. And it also felt obvious reading the judges questions against Karl with the fact Karl was so insincere about it all. Just a huge mistake from Karl’s attorney’s and Karl himself.
Don’t get me wrong. I am an avid BM disliker. But I had such little confidence when reading the play by play.
It does not surprise me that the court would find defamation occurred. What’s disappointing is the size of the damages, especially considering Billy’s prior reputation as a cheater and his deception throughout.
I agree with that. But that’s what I believe to be a complete failure of Karl’s lawyers. I think Karl paid top dollar for some of the worst attorney’s out there. But I have heard rumors of Karl not being able to foot the bill so in turn naturally they stop working essentially. Would love to know more. Also as ersatz cats pointed out earlier on, Karl’s lawyers messing up bigtime with the time line of events. I have not kept up enough to know if the Judge read off the messed up timeline or the correct one. But it’s clear the timeline did matter.
Judge read off the correct timeline.
I can’t believe that they allowed Karl to keep posting about and discussing the trial on social media – especially given that said discussions are what led to the aggravated damages. Seems like bad defence and advice from them.
Seems like Karl was his own worst enemy here to an extent. The judge really doesn’t seem to have appreciated his braggadocio online.
I don’t for a second believe that GBF’s reputation was damaged in the way the judge has said, nor do I think he should have been granted any damages, but if I’m trying to be impartial I can’t say that the judge’s conclusions about Karl’s publications/retractions were wrong.
Yeah, when the judge was laying out all of Karl’s actions it really painted him negatively.
It seems that the damages are USD too, so that’s more than half a million Aussie dollars (before costs, which will likely also be sought).
What kills me the most about the result is the message that it sends, even beyond Billy. I (thankfully) haven’t been in court yet, so Ersatz’s play-by-play was the first time I’ve really dug into the meat and potatoes of how this works. Not a particularly high-profile case, centered around a topic that barely anyone except the participants knows anything about. And what struck me was how ludicrously complicated the process is. You can be 100% in the right, but the sheer amount of procedural hoops and high-pressure situations you have to face to prove it makes it increasingly likely you’ll slip up, and it”ll turn the case against you. And of course, bad lawyers can screw up even the most basic, slam-dunk win. “Having a good case” and “playing the legal game” are two entirely different, barely compatible skillsets.
The damages are *insane*, too. Karl did allude to making preparations in case of a loss, but I don’t think he expected to lose this badly. Not sure how a medium-sized YouTuber’s supposed to pay off $400k of damages in any reasonable time.
As much as this sucks, on the bright side, Karl stood his ground against Mitchell and as a result is under no obligation to remove his videos about him or never to investigate him in future. They’ll still stand as a record of Mitchell’s cheating.
Billy might have won some cash (and a reason to brag, which he probably will), but to anyone with half a brain cell, he’s a washed-up, middle-aged joke in a cheap suit and a tacky tie.
The full decision has been posted, paragraphs 506 and 507 include the judge’s conclusion that Karl was recklessly indifferent as to the truth of his assertions, and his being recklessly indifferent to the truth of the matter went uncontested because he didn’t assert it in the pleadings. That was his best defense and it went totally uncontested, insane screw up.
Correct, that was the whole case right there. And Billy is going to trot around claiming he’s a hero when the reality is he won his court case on a technicality caused by an opposing counsel’s blunder.
As someone said, the fact that so many people are surprised that Karl lost is proof that the defamation really happened.
The idea that Karl propagated that Billy Mitchell led Apollo to his death was made without evidence. Moreover, KJ was informed beforehand that there was evidence AGAINST this hypothesis. But KJ decided to state it as if it were true anyway, and since people thought he would win the legal dispute, this only proves that people believed the serious and baseless claims, i.e. defamation really did take place.
I think people are confused because Karl didn’t really clarify to his audience that the lawsuit was about his statements on Apollo (at least I don’t remember him ever doing so). Most people seem to think it’s about Karl calling Billy a cheater.
It doesn’t mean that at all, if you read the decision. Karl lost on a technicality. His attorneys blundered at not pleading Karl’s defense that he did his diligence on the facts of the Apollo Legend story. In the absence of a defense, the court was forced to hold in favor of Billy’s assertion that Karl did not do any diligence. That element being met, Billy automatically wins.
As I mentioned in another reply, if Karl’s attorney was in the U.S., his reputation would be in shambles for that error. If he had a firm practice it would be obliterated, he’d have to go work as captive counsel for a collection agency or like such.
I remember reading this part in the recaps and thinking “oh that’s not good.”
I don’t know if “diligence” here refers to some procedure during the court case, or to how Karl Jobst handled the information before making his video. If it’s the second case, then it’s not as if the lawyers had any way of defending Karl Jobst, he clearly wasn’t diligent, on the contrary, he acted in a totally careless and biased manner, using to support his thesis speculations about a case whose information he didn’t have access to, and ignoring contrary evidence, such as the reliable information he received that Apollo hadn’t been financially ruined by Billy Mitchell. He also ignored Apollo himself who attributed his decision to other people. As far as I know, Karl Jobst has never retracted his statement.
And if the issue was only technical, I think I would have heard the judge say other things. What the judge said was exactly what I, and everyone else who knew that Karl Jobst was going to lose, thought about the matter. That is, that Karl Jobst made allegations in an irresponsible way that defamed Billy Mitchell. This was obvious from the moment Karl Jobst decided to throw all common sense out the window and attribute Apollo’s death to Billy Mitchel in a public video.
I don’t really follow your logic. Folks’ surprise would be indicative that defamation didn’t happen, i.e. “Whatever people believe about Billy, nobody really thinks it came from Karl”.
This is why you keep head down and your mouth quiet until the lawsuit is over. Sorry Karl, I really wanted you to win.
Judge’s are the ultimate wildcard.
Being cocky and confident before, during and after court can make a judge do some silly things.
This is so sad that its awesome! The drama continues.
Billy Mitchell always wins. Or will he…
Karl thought he could name and introduce all his cheating evidence to expose Billy in front of a Jury. But Billy instead just sued Karl for this one thing without context. And the judge agreed on that one thing.. It was a perfectly reasonable verdict.
Poor Karl.
What will Notch do?
This decision is going down with fingers pointed at Karl’s legal team, that’s for sure. Not what many expected would be the outcome.
Still doesn’t change the widely held presumption that GBF did NOT play on original DK hardware, which is a whole different matter. So the “big picture” is that GBF may have won the battle but ultimately lost the war…but this was definitely a critical battle.
I’ve avoided saying anything, even dating back to the very beginning, about “Apollo Legend” as truth be told I knew very little about the guy, and then all of a sudden the repots of his death came up. Not a happy moment in gaming and I honestly did not immerse myself any further with the details although I did pick up some top-side comments and saw the titles of several YT videos on the matter, so I knew that something serious had happened.
This ruling only impacts two (2) people…and of course their legal teams…but for the vast majority of those who have been patiently and in some cases merely curiously awaiting the outcome, it’s a bitter pill to swallow, and a disappointing one at that.
But, the law is the law, and it is what it is. Case closed. I suppose that the fact that a ruling WAS issued is better than a mistrial for one reason or another.
No idea what comes next as I do not understand post-ruling options within Australian courts at all. In the US the appeals process exists and can take years, and even longer, before it is fully played out.
After getting home and tuning into the verdict, I was pretty unsure as to how the judge was going to proceed,
But… I did have a sinking feeling in my gut when the stream went live.
I think I already knew how it would play out.
Unfortunately, Karl’s team didn’t point out how vindictive Mitchell actually is. The judge, in my opinion, seemed to side with Billy straight away.
From being in contempt of court using a phone, the judge ignored it. Then saying he was going to watch The King of Kong with some popcorn, and maybe taate some of Billys hotsauce while viewing.
I think the judge put himself in Mitchell’s shoes, and then looked at it from that point of view onwards. I also think there was a bias towards Mitchell simply because the judge didn’t know the backstory and took Billy at face value.
It’s definitely a messed up situation. And I do agree that Karl’s legal team didn’t do enough to get the win.
But hopefully Karl will be able to deal with this outcome, especially after the judges scathing remarks. However I did mention previously in a comment during the trial that I didn’t like this judge, and that I saw he had a bias towards Mitchell.
People might consider this opinion invalid, but I saw an old judge take pity on an old Billy Mitchell, and put himself in Billys shoes throughout the trial.
Some excellent points there Mr Murphy, Sir.
I think you hit the nail on the head regarding the judge. His opinion of Karl during his verdict felt like an attack and very personal. He seemed to have Billy blinkers on from the beginning, almost like a backwater judge being starstruck by a âcelebrityâ in his courtroom. Like you say the whole phone episode was swept under the same carpet as Mitchellâs distasteful comments about Apolloâs death rumour on Reddit. The jovial comments about Rickeyâs sauce wouldâve certainly had Mitchellâs lawyers thinking âweâve got him onside.â
Enjoy the spoils Billy, however the spectre of being a pathological liar and cheat will follow you wherever you go.
That’s another thing I was thinking about after the verdict. I was like “No way is the judge dumb enough to fall for Billy’s story”. I figured he just dropped it because he had already witnessed Billy’s obvious lies on the stand, that he figured it wouldn’t matter in the end.
Looks like I was wrong. He did fall for it.
As hard as this may bear on Karl’s soul, he objectively made some serious errors:
Error 1: Not doing his homework (i.e. performing and documenting due dilligence) before making those claims in the first place
Error 2: Continuing to report about the case and its proceedings before the final verdict, especially as HE is the defendant with a lot money on the line. Usually you should simply keep quiet until the final verdict – unless you want to offer additional target surface for additional defamation claims later on.
Error 3: Being that blatantly fixated on Billy Mitchell as a public persona. Honestly, that guy is simply not worth mentioning in the first place.
If KJ only kept his focus on harmless speedrunning content, exposing a cheater every now and then, he would have still made substantial cash due to his videos being really well made.
I wonder if other subjects of his public statements (like the Completionist or Todd Rogers) might come up with once they have seen Karl’s neck on the chopping block.
Also, I wonder if he has any content creator insurance (aka “defamation insurance”) that would step in to cover at least some of the costs and penalties.
[…] he cheated to earn his video game records. As it turns out, thatâs because it wasnât. Jobst made videos claiming that Mitchell was blackmailing another YouTuber, named Ben Smith/Apollo Legend. […]
[…] de que ele traiu para ganhar seus registros de videogame. Como se vĂȘ, Ă© porque nĂŁo foi. Jobst feito VĂdeos alegando que Mitchell estava chantageando outro YouTuber, chamado Ben Smith/Apollo Legend. […]
Well well well isn’t that rhyming essay justice. I hereby demand Billy give me a proceed of the winnings or I will sue both him and Karl for stealing my idea to sue people I invented scamming.